#the point about candle using powers he doesn't understand and then not respecting it when

[baatarthefirst]

Karim did have some good points. If Janai would just listen to him the whole thing wouldn't happened.

No, Karim had some understandable concerns. Concerns which Janai DID listen to. She just didn't agree and/or do what he wanted. Now, that's not to say that she's perfect, but Karim is the wrong here.

When they talked of the upcoming marriage to Amaya, Janai heard him out. She didn't understand what the issue was, which is a problem that Karim was right to address, but she only shut him down after his argument turned bluntly racist, 'humans cannot become a permeant-'

Janai is queen, her marriage will be a symbol no matter who she marries, human or elf. And as queen, Janai has to consider how it will effect her people. That isn't to say that she shouldn't marry Amaya, but she should take the concerns of her people to heart. It's easy to see why they might think that their queen might favor the human 'visitors' now, why they may be afraid that the humans might actually be playing the long game to get a foothold on Sunfire land (the audience knows they're not, but the elves could be reasonably unsure), and why they may lose their culture. Janai has to recognize this, and deal with it accordingly.

If Karim were in the right, he would bring up these concerns calmly and not bring his anger and fear into this. He would be looking for solutions, not criticizing. He would've said something along the lines of...

"You need to address the people and let them know that Amaya is not here to control us. Also she needs to read our sacred texts, not to convert, but she must know our beliefs and respect our ways. We need to get her [henna] markings soon if she's amicable. And tell her to give up her command so a foreign general isn't marrying the queen."

... and so forth. They might not agree on all the points, but they could work on it together. But he doesn't work with her, he has an idea of how things should work and that's the end of it.

When he's angry about the candle, Janai listens and calls a tribunal. The queen has the right (the RIGHT) to show mercy should she choose to. Karim doesn't acknowledge that showing mercy is a valid choice that Janai has the power to make, it is their law. But it doesn't suit his will, so it doesn't count.

Janai showing mercy was best for their people. What would they have if she didn't? One dead human, possible riots from the humans...more death and destruction. What did they get by showing mercy? A solution to the underlining problem, a shrine where candles can burn without endangering anyone.

[Now to be fair, if I were an elf in this situation, I would be the picture of Miyana's point "Angry with Janai, but not ready to turn against her".] The people have a reason to worry, but if the prince would work with her as the voice of tradition instead of his 'you suck, I could do better even though I have not brought forth any plan or ideas' act, then they could move forward while keeping their culture alive. But he won't, because he won't listen to anything that doesn't line up with his views.

This guy is the Sunfire version of Viren. He's scared, too sure of his own righteousness and intelligence. He'll blame everyone else for his mistakes and he's willing to anything to protect his people, no matter how vile; all in the name of doing what's 'necessary'. He's ready to release an ancient evil to get rid of Janai, after going on about how humans allowed evil to flourish and never takes one minute to think on how that might not be in line with the Sunfire traditions/beliefs/laws/customs that he's supposedly trying to protect from destruction.

Karim has the foresight of someone walking backwards, and his points are "I'm right. Even when I'm wrong, I'm right. And if I have to do horrible things to prove I'm right, it's Janai's fault.'

In short, he is a hypocrite and an idiot who doesn't even live by the customs, laws and traditions he's supposably saving from the supposedly evil queen.

[terrence-silver]

Beloved has a mystic taste for everything, which means: tarot, chakra meditation, energy, herbs and zodiac signs...

Does Terry thinks it's bullshit or he understands and respect? He doesn't seem someone close to "mysticism" at all.

What if beloved has their body full of tattoos with it? Symbols of nature elements, pentagram...

He fell in love with them as the way they are, after all.

“Let me feel you, my love...” Beloved wants to feel his energy and read the cards for him.

Sometimes Beloved says words of a mantra while Terry is sleeping to protect him.

Terry sees the perks in tantric sex with beloved.

But, this begs the question what Terry's views on spirituality are in the first place? Like, for the lack of a better word, I think he's a jock, if you know what I mean? Especially around the time he went from a Twig to a King Cobra. He's all athleticism, logic, calculation, tactics, shrewd business and materialism and I don't figure him as the superstitious mystical sort in the classical sense (at least not outwardly --- not on the surface --- more on that later), unless when one counts the advantages of pressure points and how to best disable them, rendering someone invalid during a fight and if anything, he might mock any attempt anything closely resembling anything mystical as bullshit because, at any era, even when the 80's are long since over, he's still very much a capitalist Yuppie type at heart, even if the definition of a Yuppie changed and transformed meanwhile, and he along with it. Not to mention the possibility of slight and not so slight prejudices in general towards any cultural practices, coming from him and his mockery --- which is ironic, because Tang So Doo is inherently something of a mystical sport itself. So, Terry's cynical, unless this mysticism comes in handy and is personally useful to him, of course; and then he'll use whatever he can use because the ends justify the means without him actually subscribing to any of it, right? But, listen, I also don't think Terry's quite so disconnected from all things mystical as people might think and it would be a disservice to think so. Hear me out:

I keep bringing up his ponytail. Why? Because it is relevant.

I mean, keeping someone's memory alive through a memento?

Taking on their likeness, their manners, their speech? Usurping them?

There's a sense of reverent mystique to that.

(A subconscious?) belief that the dead are something to be kept close and alive.

I don't think Terry's spiritual in the sense of tarot cards, totems, pentagrams, candles and herbs (unless he's poisoning someone, for all we know, or roleplaying something saucy) but I think his personal brand of mysticism is far more private, complex, less obvious, intimate, tucked away and hidden beneath the surface of who he fundamentally is. I think he places immense value on those he loses to the point of cult-like worship of their very identity and existence. On devotion to the point of him viewing it like a blood covenant or a life debt. On given words and promises, which is why he loses it so hard when he feels people go back on them when directed at him, even though, ironically, he might go back on it constantly, rendering him as something of a double standard hypocrite, but anyway --- It is magic and it is mundane. If Terry was ever close to any personally formed religion, it would be the Power of the Word. In the same vein, if Terry was entirely devoid of mysticism and all semblance of spirituality teeming beneath the surface, his friendship with Ponytail would've been entirely forgotten about after Vietnam, or rather, to reiterate, it wouldn't have affected him so fundamentally. He would've been a soldier who died, was grieved for and Terry would've never slicked his hair back for him out of a sense of trauma, survivor's guilt and obligation. He would've never started speaking the way he did. He would've never adopted his mannerism. He would've never became someone else; two people and one body.

Is it PTSD or is it belief?

Could be both.

FURTHERMORE, IF TERRY HAD ZERO SENSE OF SOME SORT OF INNATE BALANCE NEEDING TO EXIST AND A SENSE OF PAYBACK, HE WOULD'VE NEVER VIEWED JOHN SAVING HIM AS SOMETHING WORTHY OF 'YOU DO A GOOD DEED FOR ME, I DO TEN GOOD DEEDS FOR YOU AND PROCEEDING DOING SO FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE'. Sure, there might be a feeling of being indebted spliced in there and the pathological abhorrence and hate to feel like you're controlled when you owe a person something, even if you love them and they're your best friend in the world, but I also believe Terry strictly believes in the power of giving back what you owe people, good or bad, because the more you owe people, the more power they have over you and they can use that power against you. Well, also, because he has a sense of weird, bizarre honor people often disregard, but he has an understanding that deeds are power, and anything with that much power can't just be inherently null and void of something innately energized.

So, basically, while Terry himself wouldn't outright subscribe what is technically Wicca or a form of Paganism, he lets beloved have it, and hey, he understands far more than he lets on.

[mrs-nate-humphrey]

This is totally cool, lol! That's why I tagged you, I like different perspectives 🥰 and I adore lesbian Jenny

I've been thinking a lot about Jenny's character and sexuality lately since I'm in the middle of rewatching the show. I totally agree that she's attracted to women and most times she pursues guys it's mainly to increase social status and not because of genuine interest. Nate always felt different to me, though. Like, the two times she really pursues him is in season 2, when she's being homeschooled and trying to make it as a designer, and the end of season 3, which is after the whole Damien drama and she's just looking for someone who cares about her and respects her (I know you said once that it doesn't even feel romantic here, which I also agree with, poor girl just needs a connection). I do really see how it can be interrupted as comphet, though. Like she feels like she's supposed to be attracted to Nate because who wouldn't be?

I think the reason why I lean the other way is probably just projection. Jenny's been my favourite GG character since I first watched the show when I was 12, partly because I relate a lot to her, and since I'm bisexual... Add that plus the fact that I totally have had a crush on Nate and of course I'm gonna ship them. I've been relating to Jenny even more this time around cause I dropped out of school this year, so her season 2 arc really hit close to me. So this made my jenate feelings come back tenfold and also made me that much madder at Rufus, lol. I just wanted to go through the screen and shake his shoulders like "There are other paths than the one you want your daughter to have, not everyone has to go through life like society expects you to let your daughter carve out her own unconventional path you fucking idiot!" Luckily my parents have been way more supportive.

Mainly I just see Jenny as bi with a strong lean towards women, but I like to think about lesbian Jenny, too. It wouldn't exactly be the first time I had contradicting headcanons.

I don't know I just think it's really cool that different people can have such different interpretations of the same character. I think that's what's so interesting about fiction, to see how we view things differently depending on how we view and relate to things based on our own experiences. Tumblr can be so focused on hating people who disagree with you, but I like following people with different opinions, it helps me understand people better.

Yeah, I'm glad you tagged me!! back in November, some anons were mean to me about shipping Jenate (me??? who literally does not even - anyway) and ever since then I've been trying extra to ensure that Jenate shippers feel welcome on my blog - you may already know this, because I've brought it up before, but I'm saying it here to let you know that every time you tag me in your Jenate edits I get so happy that you're sharing something you're so passionate about with me!! I'm also a big believer of like........ making the content you want to see (a big part of why I even learnt to gif is because nobody was giffing Dan & Nate, and I was like...... that's the content I need, so if it's not already existing, I'm gonna make it happen!) so regardless of my feelings it's always so cool to see the way you conceptualise JN + their feelings re: each other, and your choice of scenes + lyrics (??? I'm not actually familiar with where you got the words for your edits, they're likely songs I haven't heard, haha) is just so interesting & good!

OH my full Jenny & Nate feelings are a lot more complicated than just comphet on Jenny's part. I feel like..... neither of them was romantically/sexually into each other? and that is kind of the appeal to me? I've always interpreted Nate's interest in Jenny during the s2 arc as sort of like - everything in his life is so unstable and undetermined, and here is Jenny who is so clear on who she is and what she wants, and he admires and respects that, and he wants to be there for her and support her, so when she kisses him he just sort of lets her take their dynamic wherever she wants to? that is very much the vibe I got. You already know how I feel about lesbian Jenny, I mean, you quoted my meta right back at me :'))

but I DO agree with you that Nate is different from the other guys to Jenny. JN have this really specific kind of honesty to them - well, when Jenny wasn't spiralling and trying to get power and acting out, and when the writers actually cared? I still think that NJ had the potential to be a SOLID dynamic but the writers made it sorta unhealthy on the show :(( - but I've spoken abt moments like in seventeen candles and the empire strikes jack before, where they're both able to be emotionally vulnerable around each other in ways we don't see them be with anyone else. I've even compared that to what I like about Derena, whom everyone knows I ship in every possible way, haha. But there's something about characters who trust each other and allow themselves to be honest with each other in ways that they wouldn't otherwise EVER be - especially with characters like Jenny & Nate who have spent so long trying to seem fine and okay even when they're really not.

I honestly really like the idea of queerplatonic Jenate - they're life partners, they're each other's rock, they're each other's person - but it's not romantic OR sexual - and for Nate & Jenny, whose adolescence has involved navigating other people sexualising them so much + not having the best track record with romantic relationships - for them, I feel being qpps gets REALLY interesting, because you get all the perks of a relationship without the romantic/sexual obligations? (obligations isn't the best word, but i don't know what else to use here? LOL) and that's something i love to explore.

I feel like book Jenny was bi! The way she gushed about Nate, whom she canonically had a crush on, and the way she gushed about Serena were EXACTLY the same. Also YES I love multiple headcanons always, it's a lot of fun seeing people explore that!!! I know people who have aroace readings of Jenny, or aro lesbian / ace lesbian readings of her, and I find that really cool, too!

I also definitely get you about relating to Jenny a lot, and feeling that kind of connection. It's similar to how I feel about Dan, and .... explains a lot of my contradicting dair views, actually. A few years ago I had a seriously intense crush on a girl who was... a lot like Blair, in many ways. I spent a ridiculous amount of time writing poetry about her, etc etc, but I never actually acted on it. If she'd fabricated schemes that involved us kissing, though..... I don't know. I don't think I would've denied it if I'd felt like I actually had a chance. I think we just had a case of bad timing, & I like to think in another universe, maybe we were actually together for a bit. I'm glad that your parents are supportive of you and better than Rufus! <3

I think that's what's so interesting about fiction, to see how we view things differently depending on how we view and relate to things based on our own experiences <- THIS exactly! this is a big part of why that "proship" is in my bio. like this is exactly what it means to me and how I conceptualise & understand it!!! Like you, I also like engaging with people who have different understandings and opinions of the characters -> it definitely helps you make new friends you would otherwise not meet by staying in your bubble, & from a fandom point of view, it also helps you develop a more nuanced understanding of a character. Some of the best written Jenny Humphrey I've read was in Jenate fics - and I've had people who don't even ship Blenny tell me they liked the way I wrote Jenny in my post canon blennyfic, so... idk. it's loving Jenny hours - each and every single iteration of Jenny!!!